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Can we get an update on Honor Values?
Posted: 18 May 2017 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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This still doesn’t get to the issue of undervaluing discarded crew that have been bought and paid for. It would be better if there were less ways to get honor ‘for free’ and a better exchange rate for discarded crew. It would make crew pack purchases more valuable for a start and should drive sales to some extent. YOu can end up at the same equilibrium but with a different distributional methodology. At the end of the day, the main complaint is that the discarded crew are being undervalued.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 11:19 AM
[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Not really. When we pushed out Honor, we were already working on new systems, and thinking of ways to incentivize and provide rewards for using them. One of the major ways we could do so was by providing Honor, letting us give out new currency without disturbing the inflow of merits, credits, or dilithium. Woods brought this up in his blog post: “In the future there will be even more ways of earning Honor in Star Trek Timelines other than just dismissing crew. One of these future avenues will be tied to fleet participation; helping your fleet out through new features will earn Honor and the appreciation of your fleet members!”

Your assumption is that we built entirely new systems just for providing honor; However, the systems were already being built in parallel to the Honor Hall, and tying them to Honor was something that we planned while we were building the Honor Hall. After these systems are released, if we see people not using the Honor Hall as often as we intended, we’ll likely revisit the economy and either reduce prices or increase the amount of Honor being provided.

Any “assumption” on my part is due to incomplete and/or misstated information from DB, so you don’t get to lay that on your players.

Adding new systems is fine, regardless of whether you are choosing to characterize them as being derived from the desire to add another currency or vice versa. I would personally prefer to see basic issues fixed like the missions that don’t work (e.g., the ones that never advance past normal for some/all players), items that refer you to places that don’t give out the item, and now the freshly-broken AND shuttles. But I know some players are always going to be more interested in the newest shiny thing. The Gauntlet works reasonably well (despite the obvious heavy favoring of the defender) and there was no inventing a new currency to go along with it.

I still think the introduction of Honor should have been made at the same time that trainers were allowed to be turned in for replicating, and that we all should have been offered a one-time chance to trade out excess trainers (old airlock currency) for Honor (new airlock currency) at a like-for-like rate (# of trainers you would’ve gotten swapped for Honor you would get now), but that’s a cow that’s well out of the barn door at this point.

To me, saying you’re going to reevaluate how the Honor Hall is being used after you introduce new systems to earn Honor is the same as saying it’s already not being used enough now. Which would be because the prices are too high.

If DB is not already calculating about how often they want people to be able to buy a citation with honor and basing its prices around whether that amount of time corresponds to how long it would take a player to earn that honor *today*, not at some unspecified point in the future when there are mechanics that may or may not get players spending honor at the rate DB hopes for, that’s a mistake.

I don’t think any players expect to be able to buy a citation once a week. Between that and the current over-a-year it currently could take I think there’s a happy medium to be had, and we’re simply not there yet.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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@Nod - Thank you very much for the update.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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Holy crap. the honor pitchfork never gets put down.  I still feel like DB has to come out and say, “airlocking crew was never intended as a primary source of honor” to put the issue to bed. 

They would not go 16+ months with airlocks worth crap all, to then turn around and make them super valuable. 

Three new sources of Honor incoming.  quite exciting

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Posted: 18 May 2017 01:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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Thurthorad - 18 May 2017 11:20 AM

At the end of the day, the main complaint is that the discarded crew are being undervalued.

Yes, it’s the same complaint many have been making for over a year now.  What someone so aptly described as a “culture of waste”.  Pulling a 10-pack only to airlock every crew member for a smattering of honor and toss every schematic on the replicator pile is still pretty wasteful.

Sure, some Replicator fuel credit is better than having nothing to do with excess schematics.  And a little Honor is better than no Honor.  Adding those systems was definitely an improvement over the bad old days.  (Especially over the pre-Replicator days, which I’ve come to think of as the Dark Ages of the game.)

But especially for Super-Rare and Legendary crew the thimbleful of honor received still makes airlocking them seem very wasteful.  I spent good money (or time and effort) getting that crew member and now it has to be flushed down the drain (because I don’t have the crew slots, or it’s an extra star on a FF crew member, etc.).

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Posted: 18 May 2017 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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Roonis - 18 May 2017 01:11 PM

Holy crap. the honor pitchfork never gets put down.  I still feel like DB has to come out and say, “airlocking crew was never intended as a primary source of honor” to put the issue to bed. 

They would not go 16+ months with airlocks worth crap all, to then turn around and make them super valuable. 

Three new sources of Honor incoming.  quite exciting

If airlocking crew wasn’t intended as a primary source of Honor then Honor shouldn’t have been released before the primary source was available.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 01:44 PM
Roonis - 18 May 2017 01:11 PM

Holy crap. the honor pitchfork never gets put down.  I still feel like DB has to come out and say, “airlocking crew was never intended as a primary source of honor” to put the issue to bed. 

They would not go 16+ months with airlocks worth crap all, to then turn around and make them super valuable. 

Three new sources of Honor incoming.  quite exciting

If airlocking crew wasn’t intended as a primary source of Honor then Honor shouldn’t have been released before the primary source was available.

We’re getting more trainers via the Honor Hall than we were before it was released so I have no problem with getting it early.

Looking forward to future sources of Honor points as well though.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 11:19 AM
[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Not really. When we pushed out Honor, we were already working on new systems, and thinking of ways to incentivize and provide rewards for using them. One of the major ways we could do so was by providing Honor, letting us give out new currency without disturbing the inflow of merits, credits, or dilithium. Woods brought this up in his blog post: “In the future there will be even more ways of earning Honor in Star Trek Timelines other than just dismissing crew. One of these future avenues will be tied to fleet participation; helping your fleet out through new features will earn Honor and the appreciation of your fleet members!”

Your assumption is that we built entirely new systems just for providing honor; However, the systems were already being built in parallel to the Honor Hall, and tying them to Honor was something that we planned while we were building the Honor Hall. After these systems are released, if we see people not using the Honor Hall as often as we intended, we’ll likely revisit the economy and either reduce prices or increase the amount of Honor being provided.

Thanks for clarifying about your development cycles. Parallel feature planning heartens my software developing soul.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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Thurthorad - 18 May 2017 11:20 AM

This still doesn’t get to the issue of undervaluing discarded crew that have been bought and paid for. It would be better if there were less ways to get honor ‘for free’ and a better exchange rate for discarded crew. It would make crew pack purchases more valuable for a start and should drive sales to some extent. YOu can end up at the same equilibrium but with a different distributional methodology. At the end of the day, the main complaint is that the discarded crew are being undervalued.

+1.  We would like you to address why the Honor compensation for airlocking devalues 4* and greatly devalues 5* compared to 3* characters.  We’ve asked this from the start.  Much of the criticism of the new system is that it does not provide enough for higher rarity characters and does not add an incentive to purchase packs.  It’s not simply a matter of “it’s too expensive!”  The scale is off.

I hope I am wrong, but I’m not optimistic about these additional systems that were planned for the Honor Hall will be successful in addressing this problem.  Many of the issues over the year+ this game have been with overcomplicated systems.  The answer has consistently been to add new systems to complicate things further and marginally correct the issue at hand.

All that said I will reiterate that I hope I’m wrong about these new systems.  Good luck putting this all together, Nod.  I don’t envy you or your team.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Posts like this sum up all that is bad on these forums.

Certain individuals are constantly moaning about what they perceive to be a lack of communication from DB, yet when they do post outlining their future plans or reasons for certain decisions they get told their posts are derisible - they literally cannot win in the eyes of certain people and I for one am tired of reading their negative posts.

Oh well, another person for my ‘ignore’ list I guess.

@Nod and Shan, you two have the patience of saints at times in my opinion.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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[NDQ] A Blues fan - 18 May 2017 04:55 PM

@Nod and Shan, you two have the patience of saints at times in my opinion.

I expect if either of them (but especially Shan) ever gave notice to the company, the job listing for their replacements would have to say something along the lines of: MUST HAVE A HIDE TWICE AS THICK AS A TURTLE SHELL.

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Posted: 19 May 2017 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 11:19 AM
[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Not really. When we pushed out Honor, we were already working on new systems, and thinking of ways to incentivize and provide rewards for using them. One of the major ways we could do so was by providing Honor, letting us give out new currency without disturbing the inflow of merits, credits, or dilithium. Woods brought this up in his blog post: “In the future there will be even more ways of earning Honor in Star Trek Timelines other than just dismissing crew. One of these future avenues will be tied to fleet participation; helping your fleet out through new features will earn Honor and the appreciation of your fleet members!”

Your assumption is that we built entirely new systems just for providing honor; However, the systems were already being built in parallel to the Honor Hall, and tying them to Honor was something that we planned while we were building the Honor Hall. After these systems are released, if we see people not using the Honor Hall as often as we intended, we’ll likely revisit the economy and either reduce prices or increase the amount of Honor being provided.

This is the response that most of us were looking for, so thank you.

The system, as currently constructed, is not useful for monthly card players. I generally get top 500 in events and I’d have to dump ALL of the rewards (including 5*) for eight consecutive events to get a single 4* citation. Common sense tells you that this isn’t right. I can get that with one week’s worth of dilithium on a 10x pack and maybe more.

That being said, I completely understand the need to test and start low. This new system is better than nothing at all and I don’t understand the complaints.

All I ask is that you inform us when this evaluation phase is complete and perhaps provide an update now and then, like you just did. Thank you.

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Posted: 19 May 2017 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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Nod,

Thanks for replying in the thread.  Has any consideration been given to the idea of data mining the airlocked crew from the past and granting retroactive honor?

Yes, it would be a one-time spike and some players might be able to get more than one legendary citation right away, but it would only be a blip.  Once that one time splurge was gone, it would be back to the slow influx of honor that you guys planned for.

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Posted: 19 May 2017 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

Sure. I’ll provide an update.

So far, Honor has followed a steady trajectory, with a clear spike when the 3,500 Honor was given out. The delta between inflow and outflow is relatively constant, which gives us a smooth linear rise of Honor over time in player’s accounts. On average, players have thousands of honor in their account, with a fair number of players having tens of thousands of honor.

It took about nine days for the first Kahless to be purchased; since then, he has remained a rare purchase, which we expected. We see a clear trend of citation purchases increasing over time, while training programs and replicator fuel are the majority of sales out of the Honor Hall.

We’re preparing several new ways to earn Honor in the next client build. One way is through your Fleet, giving you a way to earn Honor over time by working alongside your fleet members. Two other ways are planned to be through updates to other systems in the game, introducing new ways to earn Honor. These additional ways should greatly increase the inflow of Honor into the game, allowing both paid and free players better access to the Honor Hall. NOTE: These changes heavily depend on testing, and may not come out in the next client build, though they are currently planned for it.

Most online games err on the side of being cautious with new currencies, because reality doesn’t care about our best guesses and estimates; sometimes it just throws curveballs at you. That’s why I have been carefully watching the currency balance in the game, talking with the design team, and discussing how we could introduce new ways of getting honor into the game. It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Look for more info in the coming weeks as we get further into the next build’s testing.

Thanks!

Amazing!  Thanks so much for sharing. And doing better, lol. This is great news indeed.


Any chance we’ll get credits and trainers back for dismissing a character? I’m always low on credits myself, and now that they’re replicator fuel, trainers are actually very desirable. It seems fair, no?

Thanks, have a good one!

Nod - 18 May 2017 11:19 AM
[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Not really. When we pushed out Honor, we were already working on new systems, and thinking of ways to incentivize and provide rewards for using them. One of the major ways we could do so was by providing Honor, letting us give out new currency without disturbing the inflow of merits, credits, or dilithium. Woods brought this up in his blog post: “In the future there will be even more ways of earning Honor in Star Trek Timelines other than just dismissing crew. One of these future avenues will be tied to fleet participation; helping your fleet out through new features will earn Honor and the appreciation of your fleet members!”

Your assumption is that we built entirely new systems just for providing honor; However, the systems were already being built in parallel to the Honor Hall, and tying them to Honor was something that we planned while we were building the Honor Hall. After these systems are released, if we see people not using the Honor Hall as often as we intended, we’ll likely revisit the economy and either reduce prices or increase the amount of Honor being provided.

Oh, sweet.

All my b****ing aside, you guys have been doing a fair job implementing new things. We all appreciate it. Makes me feel sort of appreciated, a tad bit.

Althea Biermont - 19 May 2017 12:58 PM

Nod,

Thanks for replying in the thread.  Has any consideration been given to the idea of data mining the airlocked crew from the past and granting retroactive honor?

Yes, it would be a one-time spike and some players might be able to get more than one legendary citation right away, but it would only be a blip.  Once that one time splurge was gone, it would be back to the slow influx of honor that you guys planned for.

Best idea I’ve heard in ages and ages. You’re my new best friend!

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Posted: 19 May 2017 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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virus gift - 19 May 2017 09:13 PM
Althea Biermont - 19 May 2017 12:58 PM

Nod,

Thanks for replying in the thread.  Has any consideration been given to the idea of data mining the airlocked crew from the past and granting retroactive honor?

Yes, it would be a one-time spike and some players might be able to get more than one legendary citation right away, but it would only be a blip.  Once that one time splurge was gone, it would be back to the slow influx of honor that you guys planned for.

Best idea I’ve heard in ages and ages. You’re my new best friend!

i tried sucking up to a CS rep and started my ticket with an innocent request of my 1/4 Valeris i dismissed in 2016. once granted, i tried moving onto the rest of my 1/4’s and duplicates i dismissed before 1.9, but she caught on fairly quick and informed me that that no additional crew will be restored to be exchanged for honor, and that that was the way the game was meant to be played before 1.9.

- computer, reinitialize all dismissed crew members beginning stardate -306836!
- request denied.
- override!
- insufficient clearance.
- i’ll take an extra large prune juice then. thanks anyway.

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