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Can we get an update on Honor Values?
Posted: 17 May 2017 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
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V. - 17 May 2017 02:44 PM

wait a minute.  you think 4-6 months for a purple is reasonable????

how about more like 2 weeks would be reasonable.  2 months for legendary (at most).  2 months for 1 single star is the far upper end of what I would consider reasonable.  How long is the game going to run 1000 years?

Well that depends on event performance.

In the example given, which is a F2P player only picking up daily rewards and spending them on credit portals yes that sounds reasonable (even a full year sounds reasonable for that, frankly).

But for someone playing (or paying) enough to place well in events I would agree that’s off.

You raise another good point, though.  This game is going to last, what, 5 years?  10?  Maybe longer, but how many people will play for that long?

At 2 months per legendary for good event standing that puts you at 4 years to get a FF crew of 6 (needing an additional 4 stars on each).

Currently it’s roughly 5 months if you place in the top 1000 and discard all event rewards.  That’s 10 years.  Add in the honor from only using your credits for credit pulls and maybe you’ll get there in 8 years.

Restructuring Honor isn’t going to lead to hordes of F2P players with awesome crew.  There will maybe be a small number who have one or two FF 5*.

 

 

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Posted: 17 May 2017 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
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pbert - 17 May 2017 03:04 PM
V. - 17 May 2017 02:44 PM

wait a minute.  you think 4-6 months for a purple is reasonable????

how about more like 2 weeks would be reasonable.  2 months for legendary (at most).  2 months for 1 single star is the far upper end of what I would consider reasonable.  How long is the game going to run 1000 years?

Well that depends on event performance.

In the example given, which is a F2P player only picking up daily rewards and spending them on credit portals yes that sounds reasonable (even a full year sounds reasonable for that, frankly).

But for someone playing (or paying) enough to place well in events I would agree that’s off.

You raise another good point, though.  This game is going to last, what, 5 years?  10?  Maybe longer, but how many people will play for that long?

At 2 months per legendary for good event standing that puts you at 4 years to get a FF crew of 6 (needing an additional 4 stars on each).

Currently it’s roughly 5 months if you place in the top 1000 and discard all event rewards.  That’s 10 years.  Add in the honor from only using your credits for credit pulls and maybe you’ll get there in 8 years.

Restructuring Honor isn’t going to lead to hordes of F2P players with awesome crew.  There will maybe be a small number who have one or two FF 5*.

 

Quite a small number indeed. And years of playing daily, all day just for one FFd legendary.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
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to avoid doing work here is my complete analysis:

current for discarding:
common - 25
uncommon - 50
rare - 100
superrare - 200
legendary - 550

note the nice pattern of doubling with a little extra for legendary.  Seems good to me.


to buy currently:
uncommon -  500

(woah! what happened here???)

rare - 4500     (should be 1000 = discarding 10 rare cards)
superrare - 18000 (should be 2000 = discarding 10 super rare cards)
legendary - 50000 (should be 5500 = discarding 10 legendary cards)


Look at the faction store prices. 
uncommon 100 dil
rare 200 dil - (I would always pay this rather than the absurd 4500 honor)
superrare 1500 dil (probably is a slightly better deal than the insane 18000).

I won’t discuss legendary faction store as it does not merit discussion.

In summary I think the worst deals are rare and even more so super rare in the honor hall.  I could see legendary being upped to as much as 10,000 instead of 5500.  This would provide an active player who does well in events and spends lightly 1 legendary star a month.  Wow that sounds generous right???

well I have around 40-50 legendary characters needing close to 200 stars (not to mention the new characters I will add) So 200 months to fuse them all - or about 16 years. (note that in the current pricing this would be 80 years).

 

 

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Posted: 17 May 2017 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
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V. - 17 May 2017 03:19 PM

well I have around 40-50 legendary characters needing close to 200 stars (not to mention the new characters I will add) So 200 months to fuse them all - or about 16 years. (note that in the current pricing this would be 80 years).

DB has explicitly said that they don’t intend the honor hall to be the primary way to fuse your crew - that will be by portal pulls.  So this argument will not be convincing to them.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
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V. - 17 May 2017 03:19 PM

well I have around 40-50 legendary characters needing close to 200 stars (not to mention the new characters I will add) So 200 months to fuse them all - or about 16 years.

Or you could get them all now for roughly $70,000-$80,000 worth of premium packs!

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Posted: 17 May 2017 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
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pbert - 17 May 2017 03:30 PM
V. - 17 May 2017 03:19 PM

well I have around 40-50 legendary characters needing close to 200 stars (not to mention the new characters I will add) So 200 months to fuse them all - or about 16 years.

Or you could get them all now for roughly $70,000-$80,000 worth of premium packs!

honestly that is a much better deal than the 80 years!


but look - under my revised pricing plan most of the crew will still come from purchases.  Remember it will take me 16 years to do it with honor.  In other words it’s impossible unless the game outlasts giants like WOW or Lotro.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 08:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
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[TLA] 84wb - 15 May 2017 02:02 PM
Weaf (Patriots Fleet) - 15 May 2017 01:55 PM

Should be able to save up for Kahless in about 10 years smile

Yes. With current prices for citations the whole honor thing is practically useless.

Well, Kahless is of course the most expensive unit but I’m now over 11000 honor and for now I’m planning it for finishing up some 3/4 and 2/4 crew that I’ve already immortalized.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 11:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
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As things exist right now we are not getting honor points for legendary and superrare. We are getting dishonor points.
Anybody who thinks the current price in these dishonor points for rare and superrare, must think these crew are valueless.

Most of us are trying to FF/FE the superrare crew we have.  So most airlocks of superrare are done because we have the crew already. How did we receive these extra superrares, we either got them as a reward ( again dishonor these rewards with their airlocked return in dishonor points) Or we received them when we buy packs or offers. I argue, why I then should not be able to take four of them and get one star on one of the superrares of my choosing. Any answer that this is not fair is saying they are happy they got another copy rather than someone they needed from their purchase.

Four wasted x10 premium packs purchases to get 1 is devaluing the system.??  It is already devalued by the rewards they give with superrares. In fact it is these rewards that has yielded these deflated dishonor points. Look at the cost in dil. for specific crew in faction stores. DB values them with an inflated price yet they do not want to give those crew the value they deserve in return. We can say by looking at the dil. cost only the superrare and legendary are dishonored by DB.

So legendary and superrare airlocked need to be providing much higher honor points. Rare, Uncommon, and common are honored.
However, the cost for superrare and rare citations are ludicrous.

I believe trading up for a citation needs to be expensive. But my belief is 25 to get 1 citation of higher.
With this statement the whole system would need revamping, not gonna happen.

However, give us actual honor points DB for legendary and superrare crew. Two, lower the cost of superrare and rare citations.
By the way, divide the cost of superrare citations into legendary citations. Does DB value superrare this same way with their honor points?
If you say yes, then do the same thing with all crew citations and then tell me they do.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
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V. - 17 May 2017 03:19 PM

to avoid doing work here is my complete analysis:

current for discarding:
common - 25
uncommon - 50
rare - 100
superrare - 200
legendary - 550

note the nice pattern of doubling with a little extra for legendary.  Seems good to me.


to buy currently:
uncommon -  500

(woah! what happened here???)

rare - 4500     (should be 1000 = discarding 10 rare cards)
superrare - 18000 (should be 2000 = discarding 10 super rare cards)
legendary - 50000 (should be 5500 = discarding 10 legendary cards)


Look at the faction store prices. 
uncommon 100 dil
rare 200 dil - (I would always pay this rather than the absurd 4500 honor)
superrare 1500 dil (probably is a slightly better deal than the insane 18000).

I won’t discuss legendary faction store as it does not merit discussion.

In summary I think the worst deals are rare and even more so super rare in the honor hall.  I could see legendary being upped to as much as 10,000 instead of 5500.  This would provide an active player who does well in events and spends lightly 1 legendary star a month.  Wow that sounds generous right???

well I have around 40-50 legendary characters needing close to 200 stars (not to mention the new characters I will add) So 200 months to fuse them all - or about 16 years. (note that in the current pricing this would be 80 years).

 

I don’t have figures for the distribution of characters of all rarity types in packs, but there is a number commonly accepted on the forums (though not officially confirmed) that premium 10 packs - or at least event 10 packs - have a 90% chance of giving a 4* crew and a 10% chance of giving a 5* crew. At a very simplistic level, that would mean a player is 9X less likely to receive 5* crew than 4* crew. Why then would it be fair to get <3X the honour for dismissing a character that is 9X as rare?

While I’m at it, a typical 10 pack yields 1 4*, 6 3* and 3 schems, meaning a 4* is roughly 6X as rare as a 3*, but is worth only 2X as much honour.

Basically, my position is that the honour multipliers should be based off the likelihood of a card dropping and maybe the card’s power/value on a roster. A generous version of that would look like:

1* - 25
2* - 50
3* - 100
4* - 500
5* - 5,000

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Posted: 18 May 2017 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]  
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Sure. I’ll provide an update.

So far, Honor has followed a steady trajectory, with a clear spike when the 3,500 Honor was given out. The delta between inflow and outflow is relatively constant, which gives us a smooth linear rise of Honor over time in player’s accounts. On average, players have thousands of honor in their account, with a fair number of players having tens of thousands of honor.

It took about nine days for the first Kahless to be purchased; since then, he has remained a rare purchase, which we expected. We see a clear trend of citation purchases increasing over time, while training programs and replicator fuel are the majority of sales out of the Honor Hall.

We’re preparing several new ways to earn Honor in the next client build. One way is through your Fleet, giving you a way to earn Honor over time by working alongside your fleet members. Two other ways are planned to be through updates to other systems in the game, introducing new ways to earn Honor. These additional ways should greatly increase the inflow of Honor into the game, allowing both paid and free players better access to the Honor Hall. NOTE: These changes heavily depend on testing, and may not come out in the next client build, though they are currently planned for it.

Most online games err on the side of being cautious with new currencies, because reality doesn’t care about our best guesses and estimates; sometimes it just throws curveballs at you. That’s why I have been carefully watching the currency balance in the game, talking with the design team, and discussing how we could introduce new ways of getting honor into the game. It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Look for more info in the coming weeks as we get further into the next build’s testing.

Thanks!

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Posted: 18 May 2017 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

Sure. I’ll provide an update.

We’re preparing several new ways to earn Honor in the next client build. One way is through your Fleet, giving you a way to earn Honor over time by working alongside your fleet members. Two other ways are planned to be through updates to other systems in the game, introducing new ways to earn Honor. These additional ways should greatly increase the inflow of Honor into the game, allowing both paid and free players better access to the Honor Hall. NOTE: These changes heavily depend on testing, and may not come out in the next client build, though they are currently planned for it.

 

Look for more info in the coming weeks as we get further into the next build’s testing.

Thanks!

Great to hear! I look forward to more ways to get honor and more fleet activities. Thanks for the update Nod.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]  
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a new type of fleet activity sounds cool.  I had the impression on the first announcement that this only meant the top 5 squads in events.  so I hope it is indeed something new that everyone can get.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]  
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V. - 18 May 2017 10:25 AM

a new type of fleet activity sounds cool.  I had the impression on the first announcement that this only meant the top 5 squads in events.  so I hope it is indeed something new that everyone can get.

Definitely not our goal for this to be only for top squads - these should be things any fleet can participate and make meaningful progress in.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]  
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Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]  
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[DB: Do Better] Principia - 18 May 2017 11:03 AM
Nod - 18 May 2017 10:01 AM

It’s easier to give you more currency, since we can use it to reward you for actions you take in the game already.

Glad y’all are looking at ways to get more Honor into the game.

Making statements such as this, though, in which you expect us to believe that it is easier for DB to create entire new systems with which players can earn Honor than it would be for DB to simply lower the prices in the Honor Hall is derisible.

This is the exact kind of how-stupid-do-you-think-your-players-are statement that leads to posts such as the one that got Lethifold banned for three days.

Not really. When we pushed out Honor, we were already working on new systems, and thinking of ways to incentivize and provide rewards for using them. One of the major ways we could do so was by providing Honor, letting us give out new currency without disturbing the inflow of merits, credits, or dilithium. Woods brought this up in his blog post: “In the future there will be even more ways of earning Honor in Star Trek Timelines other than just dismissing crew. One of these future avenues will be tied to fleet participation; helping your fleet out through new features will earn Honor and the appreciation of your fleet members!”

Your assumption is that we built entirely new systems just for providing honor; However, the systems were already being built in parallel to the Honor Hall, and tying them to Honor was something that we planned while we were building the Honor Hall. After these systems are released, if we see people not using the Honor Hall as often as we intended, we’ll likely revisit the economy and either reduce prices or increase the amount of Honor being provided.

 

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