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Can we get an update on Honor Values?
Posted: 17 May 2017 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:25 PM

the current honor values and prices are very well chosen because they avoid devaluing 4 and 5 star crew to the point where anyone can easily max out crew to full stars. 

If anyone can easily cash in a few rare and super rare crew and max out 5 star crew, then 5 star crew are more widespread in the game and all of the sweat, cash, and occasional tears some of us put into maxing out crew were essentially for nothing. 

For some people like me, that is the exact moment where we walk away from a paid game:  the point where what we have spent to gradually attain over a long period of time is now easily attainable for a fraction of the time/money effort.

currently it will cost you 250 airlocked super rare crew to get a single legendary citation.  For me, as someone that spends money to support the game, this is acceptable but if anything it should cost MORE honor.  There are only two types of people that will think the honor prices should be reduced:

1. persons who are inexperienced at life and have not previously experienced what happens when scarce things you used to want really badly suddenly become very easy to get.

2. persons who only care about immediate gain, and never stick with anything very long anyways

Thank you for clarifying your stance. You make a valid argument for people who believe that they are the reason the game does so well. There are a lot of people who spend various amounts of money on the game and still find it ridiculous that the exchange rate (that is referring to the amount of honor given for dismissed crew at the to most rarest levels) is so out of wack. There are more than two types of people that think the honor prices should be reduced, but if we are going to make false assumptions about people we never met, let me make one.

There is only one type of person who believes the honor hall is fine the way it is.

1. A person who has done well financially in life ether through hard work, dumb luck or good family and they have lost any since of value and simply buy their way to success and assume if you can’t afford to keep up there must be something wrong with you. 

 

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Posted: 17 May 2017 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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TheScottinator - 17 May 2017 12:39 PM
LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:25 PM

For some people like me, that is the exact moment where we walk away from a paid game:  the point where what we have spent to gradually attain over a long period of time is now easily attainable for a fraction of the time/money effort.

currently it will cost you 250 airlocked super rare crew to get a single legendary citation.  For me, as someone that spends money to support the game, this is acceptable but if anything it should cost MORE honor.

Yeah, I disagree there.  I think you need to look at the actual math and back into what it costs to attain 250 super rare crew and then determine whether that is reasonable.

 

Ahh good bro, i was worried we would never be on the same page.  Im happy to explain how the math works.  50,000 is the price of a leg honor citation, while 200 is the value of a SR crew when airlocked.  For the next part you will need to divide 50,000 by 200.  Once you have that value, keeping in mind that the 60mph train left Chicago at 5pm, it should be easy to calculate the final answer.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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Everybody check your garages, there is a tool missing somewhere.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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Captain J. Phelps228 - 17 May 2017 12:43 PM
LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:25 PM

the current honor values and prices are very well chosen because they avoid devaluing 4 and 5 star crew to the point where anyone can easily max out crew to full stars. 

If anyone can easily cash in a few rare and super rare crew and max out 5 star crew, then 5 star crew are more widespread in the game and all of the sweat, cash, and occasional tears some of us put into maxing out crew were essentially for nothing. 

For some people like me, that is the exact moment where we walk away from a paid game:  the point where what we have spent to gradually attain over a long period of time is now easily attainable for a fraction of the time/money effort.

currently it will cost you 250 airlocked super rare crew to get a single legendary citation.  For me, as someone that spends money to support the game, this is acceptable but if anything it should cost MORE honor.  There are only two types of people that will think the honor prices should be reduced:

1. persons who are inexperienced at life and have not previously experienced what happens when scarce things you used to want really badly suddenly become very easy to get.

2. persons who only care about immediate gain, and never stick with anything very long anyways

Thank you for clarifying your stance. You make a valid argument for people who believe that they are the reason the game does so well. There are a lot of people who spend various amounts of money on the game and still find it ridiculous that the exchange rate (that is referring to the amount of honor given for dismissed crew at the to most rarest levels) is so out of wack. There are more than two types of people that think the honor prices should be reduced, but if we are going to make false assumptions about people we never met, let me make one.

There is only one type of person who believes the honor hall is fine the way it is.

1. A person who has done well financially in life ether through hard work, dumb luck or good family and they have lost any since of value and simply buy their way to success and assume if you can’t afford to keep up there must be something wrong with you. 

 

what about a free-to-play person that gradually saves up enough honor to buy kahless?  If DB caves to the butt-injury and cuts prices in half six months later, how fair is that to the free player?  Should the volume of the wailing and teeth grinding in the forum take away his amazing accomplishment and turn it into a source of regret and genuine butt-maiming?

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Posted: 17 May 2017 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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A f2p player saving for a Kahless, I haven’t laughed that hard in a while. With the most generous math it would take a f2p player about 4 years to save that much honor under the current system. But who knows, there may be that one that can do it sooner. For someone that claims to have been playing for so long, you really don’t have a realistic idea how this game plays for those that either spend no money or spend in small amounts.

But with all that said. You have a right to your opinion and should stick to it. I would not want you to feel as if all your spending and accomplishments were for nothing. For your sake, and yours alone, I hope DB doesn’t change a thing. Whale away brother, whale away.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:46 PM
TheScottinator - 17 May 2017 12:39 PM
LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:25 PM

For some people like me, that is the exact moment where we walk away from a paid game:  the point where what we have spent to gradually attain over a long period of time is now easily attainable for a fraction of the time/money effort.

currently it will cost you 250 airlocked super rare crew to get a single legendary citation.  For me, as someone that spends money to support the game, this is acceptable but if anything it should cost MORE honor.

Yeah, I disagree there.  I think you need to look at the actual math and back into what it costs to attain 250 super rare crew and then determine whether that is reasonable.

 

Ahh good bro, i was worried we would never be on the same page.  Im happy to explain how the math works.  50,000 is the price of a leg honor citation, while 200 is the value of a SR crew when airlocked.  For the next part you will need to divide 50,000 by 200.  Once you have that value, keeping in mind that the 60mph train left Chicago at 5pm, it should be easy to calculate the final answer.

In case anyone else didn’t follow what TheScottinator meant:

Backing into a price tag for Super Rare exactly isn’t simple, but taking a rough (and maybe aggresive) estimate of 200 premium portal 10x pulls 250 super rares would cost 130,000 dilithium.

I’m going to stop there because it highlights a problem with looking at any one part of the exchange rate: from any event or set of portal pulls you also get 3* and 5* characters.

Right now most of the Honor you accumulate is from the 3*s.  They drop at a much higher rate than 4* or 5*, but the Honor we get back for them is pretty comparable per character.

What we’re basically saying is that doesn’t work.  The 5* or 4* you airlock should be worth more than the 6 3* you also got from the portal pull.

How is it that it’s much harder to get characters as the rarity goes up, but the difference in Honor compensation is so much closer?  It gives better incentive to place higher in events and to buy portal pulls if we are actually rewarded for that extra effort or money.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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pbert - 17 May 2017 01:54 PM
LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:46 PM
TheScottinator - 17 May 2017 12:39 PM
LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:25 PM

For some people like me, that is the exact moment where we walk away from a paid game:  the point where what we have spent to gradually attain over a long period of time is now easily attainable for a fraction of the time/money effort.

currently it will cost you 250 airlocked super rare crew to get a single legendary citation.  For me, as someone that spends money to support the game, this is acceptable but if anything it should cost MORE honor.

Yeah, I disagree there.  I think you need to look at the actual math and back into what it costs to attain 250 super rare crew and then determine whether that is reasonable.

 

Ahh good bro, i was worried we would never be on the same page.  Im happy to explain how the math works.  50,000 is the price of a leg honor citation, while 200 is the value of a SR crew when airlocked.  For the next part you will need to divide 50,000 by 200.  Once you have that value, keeping in mind that the 60mph train left Chicago at 5pm, it should be easy to calculate the final answer.

In case anyone else didn’t follow what TheScottinator meant:

Backing into a price tag for Super Rare exactly isn’t simple, but taking a rough (and maybe aggresive) estimate of 200 premium portal 10x pulls 250 super rares would cost 130,000 dilithium.

I’m going to stop there because it highlights a problem with looking at any one part of the exchange rate: from any event or set of portal pulls you also get 3* and 5* characters.

Right now most of the Honor you accumulate is from the 3*s.  They drop at a much higher rate than 4* or 5*, but the Honor we get back for them is pretty comparable per character.

What we’re basically saying is that doesn’t work.  The 5* or 4* you airlock should be worth more than the 6 3* you also got from the portal pull.

How is it that it’s much harder to get characters as the rarity goes up, but the difference in Honor compensation is so much closer?  It gives better incentive to place higher in events and to buy portal pulls if we are actually rewarded for that extra effort or money.


Thank you.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:40 PM
Pallidyne - 17 May 2017 12:31 PM

And you think 91 Legendary to cash in and get 1 is equitable?

yes it should take a lot of 4s to get a 5, but 91:1 5 to 5 is insane.

you have a valid point, it would be reasonable to increase the airlock value of legendary crew while keeping things the same for super rare.  However, any changes to honor airlock values should be retroactively awarded to all players.  If you have already airlocked legendary crew prior to the increase, then you should be gifted the difference.

Welcome to the actual discussion.

LoPan - 17 May 2017 12:40 PM

Since implementing something like that probably isnt possible, then they should not fuck around with the honor prices.  ever.

It is very possible. 

 

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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It would take over two thousand dollars in premium pulls for one Kahless, is what I figure, based on personal observations and talks with people I know. And that’s for someone who’s tossing more than half of the super-rare characters because they’re duplicates.

That’s en entire month of living for most people.


What they need to do is… something. I dunno, but something.


Free or card players will NEVER EVER get close to so much as one more star for a super-rare.

Even big spenders will take a long time. Not all the money goes strictly to premium pulls. Not even half.


So conservatively, spend five grand for Kahless. For one Kahless. Half that for one legendary star.

People are very, very mistaken if they expect to use this honor hall for anything useful without taking out a second mortgage.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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virus gift - 17 May 2017 02:12 PM

Free or card players will NEVER EVER get close to so much as one more star for a super-rare.

Let’s do some math to disprove the hyperbole.

A 4* citation costs 18,000 honor.  That’s the equivalent of 360 2* crew at 50 honor each.

I think a very conservative estimate is that a 90K credit pull will average one 2* crew - sometimes you’ll only get a 1*, often times you’ll get multiple 1* or 2*, the odd 3*.

360*90K = 32.4MM credits.

Daily missions give 75K credits.  This month’s daily reward calendar gives 275K credits.  That’s a total of 2.525MM credits a month. 

So in just under 13 months, you can farm enough credits from just doing daily missions to get a 4* citation from credit pulls alone. 

Now obviously credits are used for other things.  But there’s also events, the gauntlet, and normal missions to farm credits.  Not to mention other sources of honor like event rewards, daily calendar rewards, portal pulls from gauntlet.


By all means, keep saying that you think the prices or exchange rates are high.  But hyperbole doesn’t help the argument.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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If your standard for telling someone they’re hyperbolizing about the exchange rates is “don’t worry, you can get yourself one of them shiny purple citations in just over a year”, that’s hyperbolic in and of itself.

I think people being able to get one every 4-6 months would be more reasonable.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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[DB: Do Better] Principia - 17 May 2017 02:36 PM

If your standard for telling someone they’re hyperbolizing about the exchange rates is “don’t worry, you can get yourself one of them shiny purple citations in just over a year”, that’s hyperbolic in and of itself.

I think people being able to get one every 4-6 months would be more reasonable.

If you say it’s unreasonable, I won’t call that hyperbole.

If you say you’ll “NEVER EVER get close” and I can demonstrate that you can do it in a year without too much effort, then yeah, I’ll call hyperbole.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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wait a minute.  you think 4-6 months for a purple is reasonable????

how about more like 2 weeks would be reasonable.  2 months for legendary (at most).  2 months for 1 single star is the far upper end of what I would consider reasonable.  How long is the game going to run 1000 years?

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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We need it halved. Even that is still a VERY high exchange rate.

How about:

- Honor for the top placing event players to make up for the huge gap between 1,000 and the top 25. Top 500 should get honor. It takes lots of time, money, and effort to be able to even get to the point where this is possible. The same could be said of teams placing in the top 200 or so.

- Honor for immortalizing a character. Retroactively.

- Honor for beating Epic missions in an episode, and finishing an episode. Retroactively.

- Honor for placing high in the gauntlet or arena. Top 1,000 players in the world or so.

- Honor for inviting a new player who reaches, say, VIP 1, and/or lvl20. Something like that.

- Honor for ****ing VIP points, or even in lieu of points once one reaches VIP 14 for Pete’s sake. Make people who’ve been waiting to get a bone thrown their way for ages happy, which keeps them playing, spending, and growing the game. This is the PERFECT WAY to fix the VIP system.

This is like trying to buy a car with saved change, how it is now. We obviously need more coins. Or a cheaper car.


Also, we should still get credits and trainers for discarded characters, at the VERY least. I’m so disappointed they felt the need to take that away. It’s just unnecessarily… frugal of them.


We play for hundreds, and most of us who will ever get anything here, thousands of hours. We spend hundreds or thousands of dollars. We wait for change, and this could go a long way towards that, if done right.

 

Great idea, poor execution. And useless for anybody but whales, as is. We need more honor for more things, cheaper shop purchases, and something resembling reasonable. Because this isn’t it. And it never will be, even for the top couple percent that bring in a majority of the income this game makes.

And certainly, for anyone else, this is less useful than what we used to get. It just looks shiny. Like the prize at a fair that makes you spend a hundred bucks to get a teddy bear for your date. Or a laptop at an arcade you need a second mortgage’s worth of tickets to get.

 

Anyone seeing no flaws hasn’t looked hard enough or realized it yet.

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Posted: 17 May 2017 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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V. - 17 May 2017 02:44 PM

wait a minute.  you think 4-6 months for a purple is reasonable????

how about more like 2 weeks would be reasonable.  2 months for legendary (at most).  2 months for 1 single star is the far upper end of what I would consider reasonable.  How long is the game going to run 1000 years?

This is a bit excessive for anyone but top players.

That above estimate is super fair for free players.

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